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| BIA Hack Scott Hakala |
Click here to read Scott's post at reddit.
Below is the reply by user Qurrat361
Do you not realize that every academic you cite in this post is a Baha'i? Baha'i scholarship is hardly worthy of the name since all Baha'i "academics" are bound, as per the Baha'i Review policy, to subject their works to examination and correction by a Baha'i council, followed by punishment providing they don't retract any problematic findings, regardless of whether they're actually true. You provide no proof for any of your claims save references to these psuedo-historians, to Baha'i hagiography—which is not authentic history—and to "other historians and academics" (who?)
That the Baha'i's have, time after time, acted in service of empire and dictatorship is beyond denial. It is quite simply a matter of doctrine for the Baha'i, and it is no wonder that Idi Amin said of the Baha'i teachings concerning obedience to governments: "This is right." (Baha'i News, vol. 7, p. 873).
The extent of Baha'i boot licking is such that you find direct endorsements of the US government in Baha'i scriptures; that you have Baha'i's getting their administrative rights revoked because they lied to the Iranian government in order to leave the country (How is this not a martyr cult?); and that, time after time, the Baha'i Administration offers its tacit support to the Israeli government (absolutely indefensible in light of its recent actions) despite claiming otherwise (and before you come out with your prepared response, no, I am not claiming that the AO supports Israel simply because the BWC is in Haifa).
No doubt you'll just mark me off as being an Iranian agent and disregard everything I've said/respond with one of your cookie cutter responses. You've made that accusation about me before on Quora, though you later edited your comment, as you admit yourself here. You've called people who make connections between the Faith and imperialism "conspiracy theorists," yet you and other Baha'is are known for engaging in such behaviour. It's quite hypocritical, really, and extremely paranoid.
The Baha'i Administrative Order creates in its members a sort of pathological fear about Iran. I am no Iran apologist, but I suspect that many of their claims about Iran are overblown; same with the claims of other nations about the country. Even if your claims about Iran are true, this still doesn't resolve the fact that the Baha'i Faith creates in the Baha'i a pathological fear and suspicion concerning Iran, and this fear is used to conceal the true, imperialist motives the Baha'i Administration has for attacking Iran. These sorts of conspiracy theories and persecution narratives are necessary for the Baha'i Faith to sustain its ideological position and to gain the support of the nations of the world.
The Baha'i Administration doesn't truly care about Baha'is being persecuted in Iran. If they did, they wouldn't punish persecuted Baha'is for doing whatever they can to leave the country. The Baha'i Faith is a martyr cult—simple as that. The fact of martyrdom, however isn't of the greatest importance; what is important is why the Baha'i AO needs Iran to keep its ideological hold upon its members in place. Every controlling/destructive organization needs a scapegoat. For Scientology, that scapegoat is psychiatry; for the Baha'i's it is Iran. It does not matter if any of their claims about either of these things are true. What matters is that the people believe them, and the Baha'is certainly do believe the Faith's narrative about Iran. Other groups and nations eat it up too.
The claims about Iranian agents on the internet, however, is a very peculiar one. It's clear you're simply using it as an ad hominem to deflect focus from your poorly-evidenced claims onto the person arguing against them. One would think that the Iranian government has better things to do than to argue on the internet about a dying religion. That doesn't seems to be the case for the Baha'is, though. It is a matter of fact and is acknowledged by Baha'is that there is an arm of the AO specifically created to deal with faith-related issues on the internet (Baha'i Internet Agency). That fact makes me question why you are spending so much time here.
Source : https://www.reddit.com/r/exbahai/comments/8lqer1/nonsense_claims/
It's all Love baby! I Love the Faith! The Baha'is are respectable people. I appreciate them and they appreciate me.
ReplyDeleteYour comment is hilarious.
Deletehttps://dalehusband.com/2008/09/07/the-fatal-flaw-in-bahai-authority/
PEOPLE ARE NOT RESPECTABLE IF THEY LIE!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteGood rejoinder by Qurrat361 to that abusive, glaze-eyed cultist imbecile of the BIA Hack-ala. However, I think she is letting these cultists off the hook alittle too easily re: the AO in Zionistan. The proximity of the Haifan Baha'i machinery in the Zionist entity to its establishment is pretty self-evident and the evidence for it is vast. This proximity has even perplexed some Israelis as Naamah Pyritz expressed to Frederick Glaysher, here https://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/archives/Bahais_in_My_Backyard%20-%202.wmv (from 3:40) and here https://youtu.be/g2-oGfP2PbU?list=PLkL0BhAsTueiLqVCFxoLLR_mgM4TCcZSm (from 4:20).
ReplyDeleteSome folks have bizarre ideas about "love."
Yea dude that's way out there. I'm a regular dude. I don't do cults bro. And i appreciate everyone for who they are or aren't, period.
ReplyDeleteI answered that liar Scott Hakala with this comment, which I cannot publish on his original statement, so it will have to go here.
ReplyDelete{{{So this is what got one of us banned from this subreddit?!
Frankly, I don't care what you (DavidbinOwen) cite to prop up your fake cult anymore. I blew it completely away with this blog entry forever:
https://dalehusband.com/2008/09/07/the-fatal-flaw-in-bahai-authority/
And everything else against the Baha'i Faith I have written after that is merely commentary.
And the simple fact that you deny what I wrote, despite that all my conclusions are clearly supported by direct reference to the Baha'i writings themselves, makes you a HYPOCRITE of the First Order (Star Wars pun intended).
I do not believe in hell, but if I did, I would have no doubt that you would be heading there eventually. It is what a pathological liar like you so richly deserves.}}}
Here is the original statement of Scott Hakala that Qurrat361 was responding to:
ReplyDeletePart one: {{{Come on, this stuff gets repeated here even though it has been repeatedly debunked by many academics (not Baha'i) and many international organizations as well as false claims: "Contrary to what some Baha'is want you to believe, the Iranian government doesn't hate the Baha'i Faith because its teachings are so great or that its members are too nice. Instead, the fact remains that this religion has or have had ties to hostile powers, namely, Soviet Union Czarist Russia, British Empire, Israel, and United States. It's like the saying, "A friend of my enemy is my enemy." So there are reasons for this animosity and these explanations shouldn't be misunderstood as justifications."
These claims are repeatedly debunked by academic historians (Professor Amanat of Yale has condemned this argument as false in three separate texts published in the past 12 years) and as nothing more than excuses and falsehoods invented after the fact in Iran to justify or rationalize the persecution of Babis and then Baha'is. Both Prof Amanat in Resurrection and Renewal, 1989 and 2005, and Nader Saiedi in Gate of the Heart, 2008, and other historians and academics note that the reaction to the Faith in Iran by the clerics and certain government officials was out of fear for their authority. As many as 100,000 persons became Babis during the six years of the Bab's Ministry despite Him being imprisoned or under house arrest during much of His ministry. The Bab condemned openly the corruption in Islam and criticized the Islamic scholars for their ignorance and lack of understanding and superstitions. Baha'u'llah did the same.
As noted, over 400 Islamic scholars and clerics became Babi's in the first six years of the Bab's Ministry. It was understood that 1260 AH was the time expected for the Imam Mahdi, Twelfth Imam, or Qa'im. The corrupt Islamic clergy and government leaders feared that the Bab's movement would displace them and their authority. He explicitly rejected the idea that the Islamic scholars spoke on behalf of the Imams, had authority from the Twelfth Imam, or that the people should blindly obey them.
When Siyyid- Yahya-i-Darabi (sent by Shah Muhammad to investigate the claims of the Bab and considered one of the foremost experts of the traditions and expectations for the Imam Mahdi/Twelfth Imam and highly skeptical of the Bab's claims) and the then the Governor of Isfahan became followers of the Bab, they feared openly that if the Bab's teachings were not violently opposed and suppressed they would soon spread throughout Iran and Southern Iraq and displace Shi'ih Islam. They conspired to prevent and stop the spread of the Babi Faith.
They admitted this in some documents found by historians. They sought to violently persecute and suppress the Babi Faith and then the Baha'i Faith for this reason, not some other reason. Numerous Western diplomats and "Orientalists" noted this and commented on the barbarity of the Persian government and fanatical population with respect to the treatment of Babis and Baha'is.
In fact, there was very little contact between the Bab and Babis and any foreign officials at all. It is well-recognized by objective historians (that are not believers but also not Shi'ih) that the Bab and His movement were indigenous and arose out of the Shaykhi expectations and predictions and beliefs prevalent at the time. The Russians even petitioned the government of Iran to move the Bab from Mah-Ku (due to the proximity to the Russian border), and the Russian government did not approve of the Babi movement at all and was concerned about its implications for Russian territory should it spread.}}}
Part two: {{{One Russian official knew of Baha'u'llah, respected Him, and offered aid to Him once in late 1852/early 1853. Baha'u'llah rejected the aid. That is it. There was no contact, no support, nothing. Out of this thin thread, a conspiracy theory was woven to tie the Baha'is and Babis to Russian and British governments because of the hostility in Persia to their interference and influence over Iran in the 1800s.
DeleteOnly a conspiracy-theorist with no credible support would believe and support such false allegations. Even a disaffected ex-Baha'i that is objective and skeptical of such thin conspiracy theories (or actually from the West) would recognize that these assertions have no real factual support and are just used to inflame prejudiced, hostile, and nationalistic sensibilities in the Middle East and to excuse false claims that Baha'is in Iran (and elsewhere) are spies. Such actions against one's government are strictly against the teachings of the Baha'i Faith and have been rejected repeatedly by the United Nations' investigations into the matter in Iran, by Amnesty International, the European Union, Canadian government, and other nations and humanitarian NGOs.
Posting fantastical and incredible conspiracy-theories and falsehoods and twisting and taking stuff out of context are classic evidence of weak real arguments.}}}
Note to dogmatic extremists like Hakala: Contradicting is not the same as debunking. I DEBUNKED the claim that the current from of the Baha'i Administrative Order is legitimate by showing how it does not measure up to what the Baha'i Writings called for. Hakala only made assertions based on what others have claimed. That can NEVER be enough!
Baha'ullah's brother-in-law worked for the Russian embassy in an eminent capacity. The Baha'is have omitted this significant detail from their histories because it throws a monkey wrench in everything else they say, but the fact is widely documented. It was for this reason that he was allowed out of Iran and to exile in Iraq (and not execution like all the other Babis in the capital) after the botched assassination attempt on Nasiruddin Shah in the summer of 1852. Furthermore, an epitome of Baha'ullah's interrogation (following his being handed over to Iranian Qajar authorities before his deportation from Iran) exists and was cited by 'Abdu'l-Husayn Ayati Avarih in the first volume of his Kashf'ul-Hiyal. In that interrogation it is recorded that Baha'ullah renounced the Bab in order to save his own skin. This renunciation of the Bab by Baha'ullah later circulated as news among the Babis in Iraq, and after Baha'ullah got to Baghdad he was accused by two of the Witnesses of the Bayan that he (Baha'ullah) had aposticized from the Bayan. This was in 1853. Scans of the letters of Baha'ullah in his own hand attempting to absolve himself from these charges exist and I have copies.
Delete