The following site claiming to be a neutral religions discussion forum is in fact controlled by the interests and agendas of the HAIFAN BAHAI ORGANIZATION and its Bahai Internet Agency. Neutral non-Bahai observers, beware:
See also,

Wahid Azal

The Experience of Larry Rowe with
I was banned from All Beliefs for supposed misrepresentation. My misrepresentations? Referring to the Baha'is who have their world centre in Haifa as Haifan Baha'is. For referring to the Baha'i World Faith as Baha'ism. For putting up a link to Karen Bacquets web page and then being accused of putting up an antibahai link, lol! Anyone who knows Karen knows she is anything but antibahai, she is anti fundamentalism as it concerns the Baha'i Faith but apparently liberal Baha'i views are considered to be antibahai on All Beliefs. When I pointed out that Baha'is refer to themselves as the people of Baha' as well and that therefore Baha'ists and or Baha'ism are legitimate terms for those that refer to themselves as: the people of Baha', it was ignored.

It is quite apparent that the only Baha'i point of view which is allowed to be expressed on All Beliefs is the Haifan Baha'i POV. Sad. I communicated with the site owner and he seemed like a fair minded person it is too bad though that he has allowed the Haifan Baha'i clique to take control over the supposedly 'all beliefs' agenda of his site and to force him into banning those who express views which are not approved by Haifan Baha'ism or in any way critical of Haifan Baha'ism. To be honest he needs to remove the all from all beliefs.


Larry Rowe

My Experience

I started discussing about the various Baha'i sects and was Banned.


Mirza Husayn Ali Baha'u'llah spoke-wrote these words can anybody deny this:

Whatsoever hath led the children of men to shun one another, and hath caused dissensions and divisions amongst them, hath, through the revelation of these words, been nullified and abolished.
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 95)

Mirza Husayn Ai-Baha'u'llah actually councilled his followers to shun his own half brother Azal as well as Azal's family, children included; do you deny this?

It is Mirza Husayn Ali's own words and actions which make him a hypocrite, I cannot make him anything that his own words and actions do not prove all on their own.

So to with the words and actions of Abbas Effendi-Abdu'l-Baha' whose own words and actions indict him:

Let them see no one as their enemy, or as wishing them ill, but think of all humankind as their friends; regarding the alien as an intimate, the stranger as a companion, staying free of prejudice, drawing no lines.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 1)

Abbas Effendi actually councilled his followers to shun his own half brother Muhammad, to see him as well as his family, children included, as enemies. Do you deny this?

Shoghi Effendi was so inflicted with this mental and spiritual ailment that not one of his own family members was spared, not even his own parents ! This even though he wrote these following words:

The principle of the Oneness of Mankind -- the pivot round which all the teachings of Bahá'u'lláh revolve -- is no mere outburst of ignorant emotionalism or an expression of vague and pious hope.
(Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 42)

All of this contradiction and hypocrisy of the founders of the Baha'i faith is proof of one thing. Proof of how easy it is to give voice to such universal principles as the oneness of humanity but so difficult for people with human foibles to put such universal principles into practice in their own lives.

Even though Abbas Effendi voiced this reiteration of his father Mirza Husayn Ali's supposed beliefs neither he or his father nor Shoghi Effendi nor the UHJ has had the integrity to put this teaching into practice in their own lives:

A fundamental teaching of Bahá'u'lláh is the oneness of the world of humanity. Addressing mankind, He says: "Ye are all leaves of one tree and the fruits of one branch." By this it is meant that the world of humanity is like a tree, the nations or peoples are the different limbs or branches of that tree and the individual human creatures are as the fruits and blossoms thereof. In this way Bahá'u'lláh expressed the oneness of humankind whereas in all religious teachings of the past, the human world has been represented as divided into two parts, one known as the people of the Book of God or the pure tree and the other the people of infidelity and error or the evil tree. The former were considered as belonging to the faithful and the others to the hosts of the irreligious and infidel; one part of humanity the recipients of divine mercy and the other the object of the wrath of their Creator. His Holiness Bahá'u'lláh removed this by proclaiming the oneness of the world of humanity and this principle is specialized in His teachings for He has submerged all mankind in the sea of divine generosity. Some are asleep; they need to be awakened. Some are ailing; they need to be healed. Some are immature as children; they need to be trained. But all are recipients of the bounty and bestowals of God.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 246)

Even though Mirza Husayn Ali Baha'u'llah supposedly removed the past religious practice of dividing humanity he and each who followed in his footsteps religiously practiced the division of humanity as well as councilling their followers to do so.

If you choose to shut down your God given intelligence and reason that is your choice, when others refuse to do so think twice before criticizing them, that is unless you wish to show yourself as being a party to their contradiction and hypocrisy.

The actual contradictory words and actions of Husain Ali - Baha, Abbas, Shoghi and today the UHJ condemn them all. I am merely pointing out this fact.

If you espouse the oneness of humanity you had better be ready to embrace that belief in your own life, especially amongst your own family members. That is if you wish to be taken at all seriously.


Larry Rowe

Caste System in Baha'i Faith

Currently, the Baha'is think of humanity as being divided into a few official groups or castes. I have organized them in a list from "best" to "worst" based on how many rights they would have in a future Baha'i world order:

1. Baha'i in good standing
2. Baha'i with administrative rights removed
3. non-Baha'i
4. Covenant-breaker

If you include more subtle gradations, which may possibly acquire a greater degree of official status in the future, the list would look like this:

  1. Baha'i in good standing, active
  2. Baha'i in good standing, inactive
  3. Baha'i with some administrative rights removed
  4. Baha'i with all administrative rights removed (Feast attendance, voting, eligibility for election, contribution to Funds, contribution to Huququ'llah, plus anything I'm forgetting to mention)
  5. non-Baha'i (never been a Baha'i)
  6. ex-Baha'i, left voluntarily (not an opponent)
  7. ex-Baha'i, membership revoked/expelled by UHJ (not an opponent)
  8. opponent or enemy of the faith, non-Baha'i
  9. opponent or enemy of the faith, ex-Baha'i
  10. child or grandchild of Covenant-breaker, not practicing in Covenant-breaker organization
  11. Covenant-breaker, not officially declared by UHJ but member of Covenant-breaker organization
  12. Covenant-breaker, officially declared by UHJ
Groups 10-12 constitute the Baha'i version of the "untouchable caste." Groups 4-12 (the vast majority of categories) would not have the right to vote in elections for the highest governmental
positions, i.e. the Baha'i Houses of Justice that would have final authority at the local, national, and international levels.

How's that for unity of all people, huh?

Eric Stetson
(Group 11 - I think ;)

No Going Back

Recently I’ve had a spate of old friends from my days as a Baha’i seemingly trying to lure me “back into the fold” through various things like recounting fond memories or sending me the old “hey, howarya, have you gotten over your silly stage yet” emails, stuff like that. So I decided now was a good time to republish some older material and re-edit it to disabuse those old friends of the idea that I’d do any such thing as turn back from the road I’m currently on. It ain’t gonna happen, and here’s why.
I was a member of the Baha’i Faith from 1971 to 2003. When I joined in 1971, it seemed to fulfill all my longings, preaching a liberal if not radical social gospel while still appealing to my need for a spiritual basis for this kind of teaching. Among the beliefs emphasized were:
• The equality of men and women;
• The elimination of all forms of prejudice;
• World peace upheld by a world government organized on federalist principles;
• The independent investigation of truth;
• Universal education;
• Ending the extremes of wealth and poverty.

And more like this. What made it unique was that it was part of a religion! Baha’u'llah, the founder of the Baha’i Faith, claimed to be the messenger of God for this day, and that these social principals were what GOD wanted humanity to do. NOW!

You can imagine the attraction for someone like me – a progressive social agenda wedded to a spiritual base. And I wasn’t the only one of my particular bent to be thus attracted; the American and European Baha’i communities experienced a huge jump in youth conversions in the ’60s and ’70s. “Hippies” and spiritually-minded social radicals found the Baha’i Faith irresistible.

This influx of young, intelligent, educated, and enthusiastic new converts had a dramatic effect on the American Baha’i community. This newest generation of converts immediately became involved in all aspects of the Faith – writing articles, serving on the local governing boards of the religion, becoming vocal community advocates of what they perceived to be the important aspects of the Baha’i Faith. They were intent on bringing the Baha’i community into the mainstream of the effort to revitalize America and make it the spiritual as well as material leader of the world. They took seriously Shoghi Effendi’s (leader of the Baha’i Faith from 1921 – 1957) exhortation to keep the Faith at the “forefront of all progressive movements.” (The World Order of Baha’u'llah, p. 23)

But in the late 1980s the institutions of the Baha’i Faith began balking at the enthusiasms of this wave of idealists. Foremost in these efforts at stemming an activist tide was the constant reminder that Baha’u'llah told Baha’is to stay out of partisan politics and not to interfere in the workings of governments. And they imposed quite a literal interpretation of that principle. The Baha’i Faith teaches that racial discrimination is evil, but the institutions of the Faith deemed it unwarranted interference in the affairs of a “legally” elected government for Baha’is to be involved in the disinvestment movement against the apartheid regime in South Africa. Participation in peace and disarmament marches was first criticized and then outright forbidden, despite the fact that the Baha’i Faith claims to be working for a lasting world peace. There were other similar issues.


Visit the original blog

Kyrgyzstan President signs New Religion Law Banning proselytism and deceptive conversions of children and Youths

by Ravian Bilani

President Kurmanbek Bakiev has signed the restrictive new Religion Law; The Law – which replaces the 1991 Religion Law - was approved by parliament on 6 November 2008. On 12 January, 2009 the presidential website reported:

Provisions under this law include: a ban on children being involved in religious organizations; a ban on "aggressive action aimed at proselytism"; a ban on the distribution of religious literature, print, and audio-video religious materials; and de facto compulsory re-registration of all registered religious organizations (see F18News 5 November 2008

The 12 January announcement on the presidential website trumpets the fact that 200 adult citizens permanently living in Kyrgyzstan will now be required before a religious community can apply for state registration, compared to 10 in the current Law. It says 10 registered religious organizations will be needed to form a "religious association".

The announcement stresses that "attracting children into religious organizations is not allowed, and insistent actions directed at turning believers of one faith to another (proselytism) are banned". It adds that "the distribution of literature, printed, audio and video materials of a religious character in public places (on streets and roads), and going round flats, children's institutions, schools and higher educational establishments is banned". It specifies that the Law "determines [official] control on the activity of religious organizations".

The announcement said the Law comes into force on its official publication. It said statutes of religious organizations must be brought into conformity with the new Law.

The announcement stresses that the "leading religious confessions of the country" – which it identifies as the Muftiate and the Russian Orthodox Church – had called on President Bakiev to sign the Law. "The majority of state bodies of the country likewise supported this Law."

The Baha’is now will be put under the scanner with this law and their so called moral children classes, the junior youth spiritual empowerment program,(JYSEP) and Ruhi Institute courses, the study circles which are nothing but deceptive way of propagation and conversion will come to standstill.

Echoing his concern over the ban on spreading one's faith is a member of the Baha'i community, who asked not to be identified. "We're not sure how we will be treated if we speak to someone about our faith," the Baha'i told Forum 18 on 13 January. "Will this be regarded as illegal propaganda?" The Baha'i said every religious believer will have to be more careful now. "We won't be able to say what we want to say, and we won't be able to listen to what we want to listen to."

P. Porsayeva

What has brought the Baha'i Faith to this juncture?

This place where several Baha'i sects vie to be recognized as the one and only true Baha'i sect? Where the Haifan Baha'i sect refuses to even recognize the very existence of other Baha'i sects, claiming that because those sects have so few adherents they are insignificant and virtually non-existent.

How is it that the lofty ideals and concepts that are supposedly central to Baha'i belief have been left in the dust in a blind pursuit to raise one version or another of a supposedly inviolable Baha'i covenant over the several other versions of that Baha'i covenant which are all held to be sacrosanct by those Baha'is who hold to those particular versions?

Why is it that respect for the diversity of religious interpretation is missing amongst all Baha'i sects? Why? Because a respect for the diversity of religious interpretation was not held or practiced by the founders of the Baha'i religion.

Although the founders of the Baha'i religion gave lip service to the principle of the oneness of religion they failed to recognize that they themselves were responsible to apply such principles in their own lives. Mirza Husayn Ali - Baha'u'llah failed to do this in regards to the Babi/Bayani faith and it's followers, Abbas Effendi - Abdu'l-Baha' failed to do this in regards to his own half brother Muhammad who chose to hold to a more unitarian interpretation of Baha'ism.

When exceptions are made to the oneness of humanity it is no longer true oneness, it is the same old same old religious exclusivity that has been practiced by religionists since the beginning of organized religion. When there is no respect for a true diversity of religious interpretation religion falters, it then becomes more of a source of disunity than it is source of unity; more of a bane to humanity than a boon.

The present situation amongst Baha'i sects is a case in point. Of course Haifan Baha'is will discount this reality stating that all other Baha'i sects are insignificant and unimportant. While each Baha'i will blindly cleave to their own religious interpretation all along allowing those interpretations to make a mockery of any pretense of a true belief in the oneness of humanity, the oneness of human spirituality.

What is the source of this profound dysfunction? The founders of the Baha'i religion themselves. Men who had words stating that shunning had been abolished, that humanity should no longer see others as their enemies, drawing lines, that the former religious practice of dividing
humanity had been removed; while all along out of the other side of their mouths came contradictory words, hypocritical words, counseling their followers to engage in the very religious practices they had supposedly left behind. What you see is the result of these contradictory and hypocritical religious teachings and religious practices.

If Baha'is of all sects truly believe in the oneness of humanity, truly believe in the oneness of human spirituality, they will have to leave the immature, ignorant, and contradictory religious practices of the founders of their religion behind them. They will have to truly embrace religious diversity, as well as diversity of religious interpretation and not see such diversity as a threat to their chosen orthodoxies but as genuine and healthy expressions of human spirituality. Until this occurs the Baha'i Faith as a religion will continue to be more of a source of disunity than it is a source of unity and humanity would be better off without it.


Larry Rowe
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