Here is a short debate from reddit :
|Shoghi's and his horrible Grand Mother|
|Shoghi's poor Mother|
|Ruhiyyih Khanum did not become pregnant.|
Some people believe that Shoghi Effendi was
inclined towards homosexuality.
Although later Baha’i sources have tended to play down or distort his role, there is adequate contemporary evidence that, in the early period of the Baghdad exile, a consensus of opinion favoured the leadership of a young man widely regarded as the ‘successor’ (wasi) of the Bab—Mirza Yahya Nuri Subh-i Azal... [B]oth he and his followers emphasized a conservative, retrenched Babism centred on the doctrines of the Persian Bayan and other later works. Subh-i Azal seems to have remained faithful to the long-term goal of overthrowing the Qajar state by subversion ...
There are indications that Husayn ‘Ali [Nuri] did not at first envisage for himself any role in the Babi community beyond that of spiritual preceptor, and, indeed, he abandoned the group at one point to embark on the life of a Sufi darvish at the Khalidiyya monastery in Sulaymaniyya, with every intention, it seems, of dissociating himself from the movement permanently. Persuaded to return to Baghdad in the spring of 1856, however, he began to devote himself to the reorganization of the sect... By the early 1860s, towards the end of his stay in Baghdad, he had firmly established his position within the community and begun to express his authority [and] claims in increasingly messianic terms. Numerous passages of the Persian Bayan refer to the future ‘divine manifestation’ destined to succeed the Bab as the latter had succeeded Muhammad, speaking of him eschatologically as ‘he whom God shall make manifest’ (man yuzhiruhu’llah), and indicating that he would appear in about one to two thousand years time.... The appeal of a new messianic impulse [i.e. the claim of Baha’u’llah] encouraged a thoroughgoing reinterpretation of the Bayanic prophecies, in order to demonstrate that the Bab had, in fact, anticipated an extremely early appearance of this saviour figure ...
Babi militancy having failed, Husayn ‘Ali chose to revert to the quietist stance of orthodox Shi'ism. ... A semi-pacifist, politically acquiescent posture was consonant with and, indeed, integral to the deradicalized and increasingly universalist form of Babism being taught by Husayn ‘Ali during the 1860s...
It is incumbent upon the Trustees of the House of Justice to take counsel together regarding those things which have not outwardly been revealed in the Book, and to enforce that which is agreeable to them. God will verily inspire them with whatsoever He willeth, and He, verily, is the Provider, the Omniscient.
The sacred and youthful branch, the Guardian of the Cause of God, as well as the Universal House of Justice to be universally elected and established, are both under the care and protection of the Abha Beauty [Baha’u’llah]... Whatsoever they decide is of God....
[C]oncerning the House of Justice which God hath ordained as the source of all good and freed from all error, it must be elected by universal suffrage, that is, by the believers. Unto this body all things must be referred. It enacteth all ordinances and regulations that are not to be found in the explicit Holy Text. By this body all the difficult problems are to be resolved and the Guardian of the Cause of God is its sacred head and the distinguished member for life of that body.
[R]egarding my brother Dr Munib Shahid of the American University of Beirut (AUB)... His wife Serene Husseini was the daughter of Jamal Husseini. He was a notable of Jerusalem, a prominent and respected Palestinian politician who had been exiled by the British to the Seychelles Islands and then to Southern Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) to put an end to his struggle for an independent Palestine. While there, his daughter Serene wanted to get married to my brother Munib Shahid. She contacted her father, Jamal Husseini, for his consent. He did not know who Munib Shahid was and asked a fellow exile from Haifa, Mr Tanimi, about him. Mr Tamini told him to consider it an honor that the grandson of Abdul-Baha wanted to marry his daughter. On the recommendation, he consented to and blessed the marriage....
My brother was a sincere and true Bahai and tried many times, until the last years of his life to return to the Cause [i.e. the organized Baha’i faith], ... Munib was no Covenant Breaker and died a disappointed man for having been deprived of something that meant so much to him and in which he sincerely believed.
Regarding [Foroughiyya Khanum’s] second son, my father Nayer Afnan, he and my mother Rouhanguise Rabbani were married in 1928 in Haifa. The marriage took place in the Master’s [i.e.
‘Abdu’l-Baha’s] house and the Master’s sister, Bahiyeh Khanum officiated at the ceremony. Present were the Master’s wife Mounireh Khanum, the Master’s daughters and other members of the family as well as Bahai friends. Would things have happened this way if Nayer Afnan was a covenant breaker? ...
For some strange reason my father was designated by Shoghi Effendi... as the plotter and schemer behind most of these marriages. His was the evil hand that wove this mesh of marriages, connecting generations of ‘covenant breakers’ with one another, serving sinister schemes that took shape seemingly nowhere but in the Guardian’s mind. He simply could not see a group of cousins and relatives from a family that considered themselves Bahais in every sense of the word, but completely cut off from their roots and their natural milieu. Was it not natural that they should choose each other when they sought husbands and wives?
Ruhi Effendi Afnan acted as confidential secretary to the Guardian of the Bahai Cause for fourteen years; and the records of the Bahai organization show that during that time, from 1922 to 1936, he was constantly in demand in a variety of capacities. In 1924, he appeared in London as Shoghi Effendi’s personal representative and delivered a brilliant address on the Bahai Religion before The Conference of Some Living Religions Within the British Empire. In 1927, he visited the United States as traveling agent and spiritual salesman of the Guardian, championing with fervor and zeal the system of Bahai administration before recognized and declared Bahais. He was an outstanding and honored guest at the 20th Annual Bahai Convention in Chicago, where he participated vitally in all proceedings; was the guest speaker at Green Acre Bahai Summer School in Maine, and traveled from coast to coast, delivering Bahai speeches before churches, colleges and outside gatherings.
In 1928, we find him in Geneva, Switzerland, where, as the accredited representative of the Bahai Cause, he participates in the Conference of International Peace Through the Churches. Here, we see him taking the floor, offering some constructive suggestions which, as one report says, were very much to the point, and carrying his argument. In 1935, with the Guardian's approval (See Baha ’i News, page 3, October 1935), he pays his second visit to the United States; takes part in the National Bahai meeting in Chicago and, before his departure, addresses a number of local Bahai communities. 
For twelve years after Shoghi Effendi cast me out of the Cause I regularly wrote a petition—at least once a year—and more often than not, took them to the House [of Shoghi Effendi] myself. Several times I saw [Shoghi’s wife] Ruhiyyih Khanum who would meet me and end up by rejecting my request. I always wondered whether Shoghi Effendi read those letters or not. One day I asked [Shoghi’s mother] Zia Khanum. She told me that other than myself, many people wrote such petitions, for example Rouha Khanum [Zia Khanum’s sister and Ruhi’s aunt]. Apparently Shoghi Effendi had a special suitcase full of such letters from members of the family, all of which he saved. Zia Khanum added that she herself, every month, sometimes every week, would write such a petition and pour out her heart, in an effort to clarify matters to her son. I don’t know whether that suitcase full of letters still exists. If it does, it would tell the story of those people and the pain they bore.
[Mohammed Ali Bahai’s] brother, Mirza Diya’ullah, died prematurely; Mirza Aqa Jan [Kashani], his dupe, followed that same brother, three years later, to the grave;... Mirza Muhammad- ‘Ali’s half-sister, Furughiyyih, died of cancer, whilst her husband, Siyyid ‘Ali [Afnan], passed away from a heart attack before his sons could reach him, the eldest being subsequently stricken in the prime of life, by the same malady. Muhammad-Javad-i- Qazvini, a notorious Covenant-breaker, perished miserably. ... Jamal-i-Burujirdi, Mirza Muhammad Ali's ablest lieutenant in Persia, fell a prey to a fatal and loathsome disease; Siyyid Mihdiy- i-Dahaji, who, betraying ‘Abdu’l-Baha, joined the Covenant-breakers, died in obscurity and poverty, followed by his wife and his two sons;...
[Mohammed Ali Bahai] was stricken with paralysis which crippled half his body; lay bedridden in pain for months before he died; and was buried according to Muslim rites, in the immediate vicinity of a local Muslim shrine, his grave remaining until the present day devoid of even a tombstone—a pitiful reminder of the hollowness of the claims he had advanced, of the depths of infamy to which he had sunk, and of the severity of the retribution his acts had so richly merited.
Divorced from the institution of the Guardianship the World Order of Baha’u’llah would be mutilated and permanently deprived of that hereditary principle which, as Abdu’l-Baha has written, has been invariably upheld by the Law of God. “In all the Divine Dispensations,” He states, in a Tablet addressed to a follower of the Faith in Persia, “the eldest son hath been given extraordinary distinctions. Even the station of prophethood hath been his birthright.” Without such an institution the integrity of the Faith would be imperiled, and the stability of the entire fabric would be gravely endangered. Its prestige would suffer, the means required to enable it to take a long, an uninterrupted view over a series of generations would be completely lacking, and the necessary guidance to define the sphere of the legislative action of its elected representatives would be totally withdrawn.
Here is what Sen McGlinn has to say on the above answer :Hi OP,
I'll start with the first quote:
“Say, Oh you donkey! Whatever God says is the truth and will not become void by the words of the polytheists (deniers of Baha’ism).” (Baha’u’llah, Kitab-i badi`, p. 174)
This is the translation of an authentic quote. You can double check by downloading the book where the Persian quote can be found here:
This is also authentic:
“Protect yourself so that from the donkey enemies, those with large turbans do not turn you away from (Baha'ism)...” (Baha’u’llah, Athar-i Qalam-i A`la, vol. 2, no. 83, p. 504)
The book can be downloaded from the official Baha'i website here:
The bastard quote:
“Whoever denies this apparent exalted luminous grace (meaning Baha’ism), it is worthy that he asks his state from his mother and he will soon be returned to the bottom of hell,” Ishraq Khavari, Ma’idiy-i asimani, vol. 4, p. 355;
You don't even need to download a book for this. The original Arabic quote is available as an Image in the Baha'i library here:
I've checked all the quotes they are authentic. If you have doubts about the translations there are a ton of Arabic forums on the web where you can double check (1 or 2 of the quotes are in Persian).
I wish you well in your quest for finding the truth.
"The quotes are accurate, but without context, and the translation and interpretation shows a lack of understanding of literature. The bane of religion in the 19th century and until today was that it fell into the hands of engineers and the like whose own use of language lacks literary flourishes, metaphors, rhyme, quotes from poetry and sayings, etc.. When they read religious literature the result is like the ballet of the hippopotami. Oh dear, I called our author a hippopotamus! Scandal!
In this page, the writer's objection is to animal metaphors. The first one is "O you donkeys" (plural not singular as in the website's translation), which Baha'u'llah inserts as a quote in Arabic although the text is in Persian. The reason, I think, is that this is a saying which plays on the rhyme between Amir (leader) and hamir (donkeys). Baha'u'llah could have used the Persian khar, plural kharha, meaning a donkey/fool. Instead he switches to an Arabic expression, which is less derogatory and has the connotation of looking like a leader but being a bumbler. A literary reading notes such things: quotes, allusions, rhymes, metaphors. To these, your engineer is as deaf as an adder. As deaf as a shad.
The quote from Baha'u'llah continues "truth is what Truth may tell, tho' the errant may say it's an error." The Persian original has a couple of word-plays that are lost in the web-site's translation.
There is one striking simile used by Abdu'l-Baha, which does employ the Persian word khar. It's in the Persian edition of selections from the writings of Abdu'l-Baha, vol 2 p 77
where he compares people who waste their lives on splitting hairs to a donkey turning a mill (pumping water or grinding grain): it goes round and round and gets nowhere.
Wem die Jacke passt, der soll sie sich dat anziehen.
1- The most important point: Baha'is finally admitted that these quotes exist and are accurate.
2- Your so called Baha'i theologian, Sen McGlinn, technically speaking is not a Baha'i anymore because he was kicked out of the faith by the same UHJ that he firmly believes in, without any explanation whatsoever. Makes you wonder...
3- You claim he is fluent in Persian and Arabic, while he didn't know the meaning of a simple word: 'school' in Persian and after many posts of denial he finally admitted his error:
4- He also lacks simple Arabic linguistic skills. He claims the word Hamir is plural not singular:
""O you donkeys" (plural not singular as in the website's translation),"
While this word has usage for both plural and singular statements. The same word has been used in the Quran and as you can see here the translators have translated it to both "donkey" and "donkeys":
BTW, if Sen McGlinn had really read the context of the statements he would have understood that Baha'u'llah was speaking with 1 person not many. Thus the correct translation would be singular not plural, unless you mean to tell me Baha'u'llah didn't know that he was using a plural word where he should have used singular.
5- Sen McGlinn doesn't even have the correct skills to read that book. As you can see here he had to be corrected when trying to read a few simple words from the quote he mentions:
6- Sen claims: "Instead he switches to an Arabic expression, which is less derogatory and has the connotation of looking like a leader but being a bumbler."
The Arabic is no less derogatory. There is nothing in the context that implies leadership or bumblership. In fact, if Sen had read that book, he would have realized that Baha'u'llah constantly switches between Arabic and Persian in nearly all of his sentences using Persian grammatical structure but utilizing Arabic words which makes the statements very very ugly and hard to read. The prose he uses doesn't even conform with what one would expect from Qajar Era texts. Funny thing is, Sen completely ignores the 4 other quotes that are in pure Arabic and is instead sticking to the one that is a mixture of Persian and Arabic. How about the Pig quote Mr McGlinn? Or the quotes about calling Muslim Scholars donkeys with large Turbans? Or the one where he claims he has a spirit that transmutes people into donkeys? Those are pure Arabic and there is no switching to Arabic expressions.
7- Sen puts forward the context argument. This has been extensively responded to at the end of the article OP cited. e.g. According to Baha'i scripture unlike all religions in the Baha'i faith deniers are not insulted or treated like trash. Baha'is have to act like lovers toward their worst enemies, etc. etc. Baha'u'llah's attitude completely contradicts these statements... The context isn't even relevant for Baha'u'llah calls people pigs and donkeys in whatever context you like. Find a context for it if you will, becasue up to now Baha'is were denying these quotes even exist and were attacking the blog but now they are running around trying to justify them.
8- Sen puts forward a similitude from Abdu'l-Baha: donkey turning a mill. Abdu'l-Baha's similitude also contradicts the claimed oneness of humanity that Baha'is say they adhere to (see no. 7). Also, what Baha'u'llah says is vastly different. He insults by directly calling people pigs and donkeys he doesn't state similitudes.
|Deceptive conversion is illegal in India. Baha'is have been caught red-handed converting innocent Indians many times.|